Crisis of Conscience

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Posts by Crisis of Conscience

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  21

  Why are anniversaries okay?

  by MrFreeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm sure this topic has been brought up before.

  i was at a jw graduation party yesterday and realized "if birthday parties are not okay because they supposedly bring undue attention to an individual, why are graduation parties and wedding anniversaries okay?

  " they both glorify individuals and put them on a pedestal.

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  Crisis of Conscience

  Excellent question/topic. But regardless, sounds like an excuse................................for a PARTY!!
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  54

  Since the internet is available, and and dissenting viewpoints are available I've come to the conclusion that people who really believe the lies taught by the WTBS are morons

  by gubberningbody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's that simple..

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  Crisis of Conscience

  Hiding Questioner - I thought to myself, hell no one buys a TV these days without Googling the brand/model on the internet. What makes me and other JWs think their religion is any different, especially given the level of commitment expected.

  This is something I used once to try and reason with my wife. Anything I plan on, for example, purchasing, always requires research. If I want to buy a Sony TV, I don't just go to their site and expect them to tell me all the pros and cons. I see what others are saying about it/them.

  Why should it be any different with my religion? What's to be hidden? When is the last time the Watchtower study and magazine spoke about what is wrong with the religion?

  Oh and BTW, I don't consider myself a moron.......anymore!! LOL
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  52

  Is it really so that some people here became Catholic after leaving the Borg?

  by gubberningbody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  wow.. unbelievable.. .

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  Crisis of Conscience

  gubberningbody - Is it really so?

  Yes Satan? ..................................Oh sorry, you sounded like someone else. LMBO!!

  No seriously, I have thought the exact same thing. Have they found truth in the Catholic church or do they just feel it's a way to be close to God without the JW's? Especially thinking about how I feel disgusted with religion because of all their lies and atrocities, I couldn't see myself joining another religion if I left the JW's.

  Crap is aways crap. I wouldn't go from one pile to the next and hope it was better than the last. IMO

  CoC
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  2

  Therapist Visit / part 2

  by man in black in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for the past several weeks i have been seeing a wonderful therapist who ran a grief support group that i attended 1 1/2 years ago when my mom died.. at the time i was just absolutley shocked that after 30 years of being a wt slave only 5 people bothered to send a card regarding her passing.. i brought up to her in detail how the jw religion does not look favorably on anyone who doesn't agree 100% with their way of thinking, and moving forward that still affects me to a certain extent, esp.

  the shunning.. well, she brought up several times how the witness "mindset" of collective thinking (i kept thinking of the borg in star trek ) discourages individuality.

  this thinking has carried over in other aspects of my life, tendrils she said that work against other normal human behavior feelings.. the key is how a person deals positivley with the new way of dealing with unknown, or repressed emotions.

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  Crisis of Conscience

  Count me in. I'm currently seeing a therapist also. And it's all mostly related to JW issues, but also includes some family issues. If it wasn't for the therapist, I don't know if I would have had the strength to slow down in my "service" without feeling full of guilt.

  I feel great so far and am glad I made a move in this direction. I actually for once in my life feel a sort of real peace.

  Man in Black, I wish you the best and congratulate you on your progress. I'm glad to hear what's happening in in your life regarding this. Keep going. It's worth the peace of mind.

  CoC
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  156

  Worldly Shunning

  by alice.in.wonderland in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.

  http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.

  most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.

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  Crisis of Conscience

  alice.in.wonderland - I have little time to play stupid games with people I assume are adults or reiterate the logical fallacy you're trying to use on me. I'm not “running in circles,” I'm communicating with knot heads.http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=knot head
  
  knot head
  
  A person who has trouble thinking in a logical progression. This is usually caused by a profound amount of circular reasoning tying their brain into a knot.

  Is Alice in wonderbra serious? She accused me of circular reasoning.

  Here is a good explanation I found on the evil internet to define circular reasoning. Does she even know what it means? Is she aware she is often involved in it?

  § DEFINITION

  Circular Reasoning – supporting a premise with the premise rather than a conclusion.
  

  Circular reasoning is an attempt to support a statement by simply repeating the statement in different or stronger terms. In this fallacy, the reason given is nothing more than a restatement of the conclusion that poses as the reason for the conclusion. To say, “You should exercise because it’s good for you” is really saying, “You should exercise because you should exercise.”

  It shares much with the false authority fallacy because we accept these statements based solely on the fact that someone else claims it to be so. Often, we feel we can trust another person so much that we often accept his claims without testing the logic. This is called blind trust, and it is very dangerous. We might as well just talk in circles.
  

  EXAMPLE 1

  A confused student argues: “You can’t give me a C. I’m an A student!”

  Circular reasoning is problematic because the claim is made on grounds that cannot be accepted as true — because those very grounds are in dispute. How can a student claim to be an A student when he just earned a C?

  To clarify, no one is an “A student” by definition. Grades are earned in every class and are derived from a variety of different methods. The requirements in one class are set by the school and the instructor, so the same class taught by a different teacher or in a different location should yield two very different results (final grades). Merely claiming to be an A student does not make the claim valid.

  NOTE: The false authority fallacy also applies here — you cannot use yourself as your own authority with total certainty. A doctor is more qualified to diagnose your shoulder pain than you are; your teachers are better qualified to evaluate your performance than a student.
  

  EXAMPLE 2

  A satisfied citizen says: “Richardson is the most successful mayor the town has ever had because he's the best mayor of our history.”

  The second part of this sentence offers no evidence — it simply repeats the claim that was already presented. Don’t be fooled into believing that using the word “because” in an argument automatically provides a valid reason. Be sure to provide clear evidence to support your claims, not a version of the premise (the initial statement in an argument).

  
  EXAMPLE 3

  An obvious non-smoker blurts: “Can a person quit smoking? Of course — as long as he has sufficient willpower and really wants to quit.”

  This statement contains a more subconscious version of circular reasoning. The intended argument simply repeats itself, disguised as a logical statement. The warrant is simple: “A person can quit because he can.” True, any smoker can quit, but the task is not as obvious or as easy to accomplish as the statement suggests. The arguer must provide reasons to suggest how a person can overcome an addiction, not to simply identify the obvious use of will power. This example also falls into distortion and the only reason fallacies.

  Now who's circular reasoning, BIZNATCH!!

  Damn! I just pulled an Alice. I copied and pasted for the sake of my defense!

  CoC
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  28

  Girls - what subject got you thinking?

  by wannabefree in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reading the post "how long did it take you to leave", i can't help but be envious of those of you who refer to leaving as a "we" event.. i know it has been said that women tend to react to feelings/emotions along with logic, can you help me with ideas that got you to feel something was wrong?

  what should i work on planting with my wife?.

  thanks..

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  Crisis of Conscience

  Wow 10p! I have high hopes that things can turn out the same with my wife. I asked her once if she felt I had changed in the way I treat her, despite her knowing my current feelings about being a witness. She said no.

  I feel we have actually gotten closer. At this point, I'm being very subtle in what I say. She seems to listen but I don't push the issue. I really have found in all this that I love her deeply and truly want the best for her. So I'm doing my best to be patient with the situation.

  Best regards to all in the struggle.

  CoC
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  156

  Worldly Shunning

  by alice.in.wonderland in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.

  http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.

  most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.

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  Crisis of Conscience

  See if you can figure this out (if the pictures all come out)

  + is + + in +

  Answer : Alice is running in circles!!

  Address Shrerah's questions!

  CoC
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  83

  If you felt/feel that you had/have good, close "friends" in the org, how did/does it feel to just give them up?

  by Crisis of Conscience in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is my biggest dilema.

  although mentally i really feel i could walk away from the org right now, i still have genuine love for the people i have come to know over the years.

  i love people!.

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  Crisis of Conscience

  I have been corresponding recently with a friend who is disfellowshipped. His mom spoke to me of his discontent with the organization. Little did she know that she was doing me a favor by letting me know that.

  I had already contemplated talking with him and getting his viewpoint. The following is what I wrote to him, in part, about losing friends but realizing that they are conditional to their beliefs.

  Believe me XXXXXXX, I am well aware of what I stand to loose if I leave or am forced out of the organization. I feel the exact same way you do. Most of everyone/everything I care for is wrapped up in this thing. I WILL lose A LOT! Not to mention the fact that I have devoted over 20 years of my life to this. I guess what I am trying to temper this situation with is if I will really lose anything since in fact we have all been taught to be conditional people. If people have judged you as weak without even offering you an opportunity, they are conditional friends. That is why I am reaching out now. I have recently contacted a few of my disfellowshipped friends via the evil FB. LOL
  I feel I need to prepare in case things go sour.

  The following was his response to me.

  I have about 10 or 12 "friends" who I still talk to and are still in the organization. They're not necessarily "two-faced" but just disagree that friendships are conditional. You're absolutely right.. real friends don't put conditions on how they should feel or act towards the people they care about. Having a group of imperfect men telling who you should or should not associate with is just outright messed up. You're right when you said, "if I will really lose anything since in fact we have all been taught to be conditional people." I sifted through the same mentality you're experiencing now asking myself, "did I really lose anything or did I just lose the 'illusion' of having lost anything?" A few years later, I don't even bother thinking about it anymore.

  It's pretty eye-opening hearing this directly from someone I know who is now on the "outside." But its really helping me to prepare to be abandoned if I should leave the org. I feel like I'm ready but the thought, admittedly, is a difficult one.

  CoC
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  11

  How many times have you read a post here and thought, "Wow, I thought only I felt that way about (insert spiritual/JW activity here)!"

  by Crisis of Conscience in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was inspired by a few different things people said.. one dealt with if you pray(ed) regularly with your husband/wife.

  a few people described how awkward they felt in doing it.

  i felt like that for the longest time!

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  Crisis of Conscience

  It's interesting how many things have crossed our minds in the past but don't necessarily cause us to leave the org. But the more I read, while I still struggle with leaving (mainly because of family in), I strongly feel empowered to make moves. And it has definitely made my disconnection from JW teaching so much easier.

  It really would make a difference if I had my wife on board, feeling the same way. Time will tell. Thanks for the comments all.

  CoC
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  38

  Watchtower Ambulance????

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i never heard of it nor ever saw such a picture before.

  let's see who can come up with the funniest caption for one of these photos:.

  .

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  Crisis of Conscience

  "We looked inside, but we just couldn't find the truth in his/her heart!"

  And in answer to this post by undercover

  But it does raise a question, maybe a former Bethelite can answer. Were you required to sign papers giving the WTS access to all medical records, thus eliminating them from being restricted per the HIPPA rules?

  I honestly don't remember when I was a new boy. But it wouldn't surprise me.

  CoC